Warm Greetings everybody,
Here’s another long one for you – regarding Christian apologist rhetoric and it’s infiltration into current Craft Practice:
My replies to various questions and replies put forward after my original post in reference to a Wiccan leader who decided to “return” to Christianity.
Identifying markers of respondents removed for privacy, but original docs available online at the mailing list where the posts were first published.
Published here for the interest of those who seek to move beyond Belief, and towards Knowledge.
First comment from B***, followed by my reply:
> She’s not the first nor likely to be the last to do such a backflip.
> Yes, I agree entirely with your observation about infiltration by
> xtian appologists.. and not only them but environmentalists attempting
> to make their philosophies into a religion.. athiests and agnostics
> trying to create a claytons religion.. you know the religion you have
> when you aren’t having a religion.. Still, I guess they have a right
> to follow and believe as they want.. It doesn’t sit too well with old
> dinosaurs like me though.. I long for the old days when Witches were
> Witches and you knew just where you stood in the scheme of things.
> Life was simpler then that’s for sure. No one felt the need to
> “appologise” to anyone, or to placate those with other beliefs.
>
> I’ve often said it.. and copped a rain of slings and arrows for it..
> but I never-the-less, still think that were witchcraft to become less
> trendy and perhaps once again suffer a bit of adversity.. it might
> sort the wheat from the chaff.. nothing like having to go underground
> to stiffen the resolve and test the dedication to your beliefs.
>
> Probably a sign of getting old, seeing the past through rose coloured
> glasses.. B***.
Greetings B***,
Don’t know if it’s “old age” or just logic, but I completely agree
with you here.
While it’s currently politically correct to be politically correct, I
wonder how many politically correct Christian apologists would be
willing to stand arms raised and naked under the sun or moon, either
alone or with friends around, and loudly claim “I am free” – and know
it to be true?
What if they did it every year? Once a month? A week? Every day?
How would they cope with the results of such a claim over time?
Who would stand as loving, yet unbiased Teacher or Guide for them?
How would that loving, yet unbiased Teacher or Guide have received
their training?
With so much of the Craft being whitewashed until it’s unrecognisable
from Christian lore, who today has such Knowledge?
If Christian Doctrine has its way, pretty soon no-one will have it -
or those that do will necessarily need to hide themselves away for
fear of ridicule or retribution from within their own ranks.
IMO, with this nice new need for ‘Pagans” to have a “church” this is exactly
what’s happening now – only recently I found myself for the second
time in my life, with only 30 years between first and second, having
to ‘defend’ my Knowledge against infiltration by such Christian prejudice.
Someone made a mistake when realising that much of Christian Practice
evolved from older Pagan ways, by assuming today’s Christian Rituals
to be copies of those Pagan ways. They are not!
The days of “Worship” might be the same, or close, but the Doctrines are far removed from
the Wisdom of the Old Ones. In fact they are designed to instill fear
of that Wisdom in favour of self-denial and servitude to ‘Christ’.
Why would any Pagan person wish to emulate that?
With any luck those with a true Thirst for Knowledge can, and will,
transcend that fear by using logic, and will continue their search
regardless of the whitewash.
I know for certain there are around six or seven people here,
including yourself, B***, who can handle the role of Teacher or Guide
perfectly well for those brave enough to continue beyond the limits of
Hope and Fear – and “Belief”.
Six or seven of approximately 1795 members gives an idea of what we’re
dealing with here.
Perhaps we’re already underground, have remained underground honing
our Craft for as long as has been necessary, and have yet to surface
completely.
Perhaps the time to surface is nearing.
Perhaps Wisdom is ageless and Timeless, and will prevail despite the
rhetoric.
Rose-coloured glasses notwithstanding.
With love
Leonora
Wisdom: http://www.witchywisdom.com
Music: http://www.myspace.com/sageylee
Magic: http://www.lulu.com/sageylee ~~~FREE download here!
===
May the thrill of living
Permeate your world
(((Feel))) the Rhythm
Question in response to my comment:
> Hey Leonora,
>
> > The days of “Worship”
> > might be the same, or close, but the Doctrines are far removed from
> > the Wisdom of the Old Ones. In fact they are designed to instill
> > fear of that Wisdom in favour of self-denial and servitude to
> > ‘Christ’.
> >
> > Why would any Pagan person wish to emulate that?
>
> So where do you stand on historical Gnosticism in its various strands
> and manifestations?
>
> (Not so much the apologist, but the old infernal advocate from time to
> time – being a Qabalist who uses that grumpy mountain god from time to
> time demands I ask the question……)
>
> LLL
J******
Hi J******,
Smiles.. I was wondering if someone would open that door.
For clarity, I have nothing against the deeply Magical practice of
self-denial, or servitude to any Deity of choice, by choice – if it’s
openly acknowledged that it IS a Magical practice and part of Craft
Knowledge, and applied as such.
My Practice sees Christian Ritual and Doctrine as clear examples of
Outer Circle Craft methods: Worship and Faith – those being the
definition of Outer Circle Practice – and understands exactly that
they deliberately use those methods to keep people from Self Knowledge
and other exploration into Craft Wisdom.
However, the Christian Doctrine vehemently rejects and denies having
anything to do with Witchcraft, despite the fact that it makes
constant and daily use of very darkest forms of the Craft, adding fuel
to that fire with Hope and Fear.
Historical, Christian-based Gnostics tend to acknowledge that there is
a deeply Magical side to their Practice, having drawn much of it from
pre-Christian Gnosticism, so they are not in denial about the Mystical
or Craft-based aspects of their Worship the way today’s Christian
Doctrine is – nor is their Practice anywhere near as dark in intent,
while the older pre-Christian Gnostics didn’t need Worship or Faith as
tools so remained – and still remain – purely of the Craft, often of
the Middle and Inner Circles.
Many pre-Christian Gnostics were, and still are Magical Adepts of the
Highest Order, whose threads, even today, weave Knowledge within its web.
My displeasure with today’s infiltration by Christian apologist
rhetoric into our beloved Craft is two-fold: The first irritation
coming from the fact that those Christian apologists are still trying
to undermine any kind of Craft Practice that goes beyond the Outer
Circle requirements of Worship, calling such further exploration
“Evil” or “of the Devil”, or “politically incorrect”, while at the same time and with the same
breath (my second, and greater irritation) pretending that Christian Doctrine is anything other than one
of the very darkest of Magical Practices, which demands “Belief”,
“Blind Faith” and “Hope and Fear” to rule its followers, claiming
instead to be “The Holy Way to Salvation”.
I have no desire whatsoever to affiliate my Practise or myself with
such dark, if not dangerous, hypocrisy, or with those who would
promote it.
However, I have nothing against grumpy mountain goats, or stags, or
their sisters.
Or their advocates :-)
With love
Leonora
Wisdom: http://www.witchywisdom.com
Music: http://www.myspace.com/sageylee
Magic: http://www.lulu.com/sageylee ~~~FREE download here!
===
May the thrill of living
Permeate your world
(((Feel))) the Rhythm
My reply to further comment (embedded) put forward by B**:
Warm greetings, B***.
> Fond Greetings Leonora.
> > Perhaps Wisdom is ageless and Timeless, and will prevail despite the
> > rhetoric.
> >
> > Rose-coloured glasses notwithstanding.
>
> Thank you for those words.
You’re welcome.
> Sometimes I wonder if those of us that
> remain with the old ways are a dying breed.
Smiles… well those of us that currently have the information will
eventually die – can’t be helped. But there’s absolutely no doubt in
my mind that before that happens, we will have been able to pass on
exactly enough Wisdom for the Ways to continue, if not flourish.
It only needs one person to hold the seed, and Time does the rest :-)
I think, between you, me, and the other dedicated Teachers with
clarity of Vision around here, at least one seed has been planted. So
we’re off to a good continuance :-)
> To be honest though, I wish
> I had better skills at passing on the ways. Sometimes I feel it’s
> like writing a book on how to ride a bike.. and the fact is, very few
> these days will actually put their bums on the seat and their feet on
> the pedals and take the plunge…rather, expecting it all done for
> them. But, that odd student that comes along and gives their all
> really makes it all worth the effort.
> B***
It’s that “odd student” that hold the key. My own Teacher’s words
might give some courage. He said that because of the strength of mind
required to Look in the Mirror and See the whole of one’s self – warts
and all – and still continue Looking, the Study wasn’t for everyone -
and never will be for everyone. He suggested that less than one
percent of the general community was capable or will ever be capable
of coping with real Craft Knowledge. I think you know what I mean.
The ability to understand the difference between Teacher and Student
sorts the wheat from the chaff right from the start. I can hear the
self-righteous arguments from here lol.
So, not at all your lack of ability to pass on the information, but
the lack of ability in Neophytes to understand context and content, to
‘lose’ themselves, and to do what they’re told.
The “odd one or two of many” that you do manage to pass information on
to are all you really need for the task to be perfectly done – because
that’s the true ratio of people capable of containing the Knowledge in
the first place.
With love
Leonora
Wisdom: http://www.witchywisdom.com
Music: http://www.myspace.com/sageylee
Magic: http://www.lulu.com/sageylee ~~~FREE download here!
===
May the thrill of living
Permeate your world
(((Feel))) the Rhythm
